IntegratePro Show: Ilana Wechsler
by Dave | Podcast
Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 26:29 — 19.4MB)
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Highlights for the episode’s show:
00:20 – Introduction of Ilana Wechsler, a Pay-Per-Click Expert
01:10 – PPC Platform: Difference between Facebook and Google
04:20 – The Background Story
10:07 – The Tie-End and Starting with the Successful Business
11:30 – Great Tips for Starters
15:25 – Talking about the Cost and More Tips
19:02 – Differences and Rewards
23:02 – Using Pixel and Press Recording
Transcript:
Dave: Hey! This is Dave Wooding from the IntegratePro Show and I have Ilana Wechsler today from GreenArrowDigital.com on the show. So, Ilana, thanks for being here. Can you give us a very short introduction about who you are and what you’re doing?
Ilanna: Yeah! Sure! Thanks for having me on the show, Dave!
Dave: My pleasure!
Ilana: I am from Sydney and I run a PPC Agency. So, for those of you who aren’t acquainted with PPC – it’s Pay Per Click. And we run an agency just specializing in Google AdWords and Facebook Ads and sort of Pay Per Click Marketing. Plus we also train businesses how to run PPC campaigns themselves. So that’s what I do.
Dave: Excellent! You know I don’t know much about PPC. I’ll be honest. I am getting into a little bit more into promote my business. But you mentioned both Google and Facebook. Are they very similar? Or is there a big difference in what you do with those two?
Ilana: You know there are a lot of similarities but there are also a lot of differences. In terms of like, the marketing approach, outside, there’s only commonality, between them is that they are both Pay per Click platform. So, if you can pair Pay per click marketing to traditional advertising like putting an Admin like a PayPal and pay for a flat fee for example. PPC is all about paying per click or paying for an impression on Facebook for example.
So you aren’t really paying for the people who you hand-select based on your targeting. And the google platform is actually vastly different to the Facebook platform. I like to think of it as.. Google will really go in after people based on their behavior online. What they’ve typed into Google? Where they’ve gone? What websites they’re interested in? Whereas Facebook; what or who you are as a person. You know… What your interests are? Perhaps your in age bracket. There’s a lot more interest-based marketing. So, that’s kind of how high level the big difference is in between the two.
Dave: Okay. So do you have a favorite? Is one more productive I guess than the other, that works well for what you do?
Ilana: A lot of business owners asked me. you know… What should I do? Google or Facebook? And obviously, it depends on your business goals. It ultimately depends on where your target audience is hanging out online. And that’s just 2:40. But, I would say that they would work in harmony together. I wouldn’t treat them as silos. A lot of the campaigns that we are integrated. And that’s where advertising is really going these days. There are lots of touch points. And you can’t look at things through the lens of just one channel. There are multi channels. It’s just like people are multi-devices. So, we might have a campaign. Like Facebook is basically a mobile thing. It’s like we have a campaign targeting more guys on Facebook but then we do a holistic re-marketing campaign which is showing ads to people who’d been to your website before across both those platforms. So we’re leveraging a reach of Facebook and then really complimenting it on Google for example.
Dave: So, as an example you might first connect with people on Facebook. Drop some kind of pixed or some kind of tracking mechanism. That both Google and Facebook can use again and again. Is that true?
Ilana: That’s exactly right. I failed to mention that special piece of information. That’s right. So, you would either promote a piece of content or just show someone an ad on Facebook and then they say, “Go to your website. Don’t do whatever you want to do. What 4:01. That’s fine. You have the ability to show them ads after the information. Obviously after some period of time. Has lapse as well.
Dave: Yeah! Right! Cool! One of the reason I want to have the call is I kinda want to find out about you. I know what you do and I’d like to get more of what you do. But what else I’d like to figure out is how you got here. Because not everybody has the disposition for what you are doing. So is there something in your background that explains how you got where you are at now.
Ilana: Yeah! I guess so. It’s one of those things that… you know… you start on a journey with no real sense of the destination. You have to start because unless you start you don’t do anything. So, my background is in actually on IT and Finances. Boring as that sounds. I work in a corporate sector for 10 years. I do really like working in a corporate but actually, really enjoyed the work, so I stayed in it. And I worked a bunch of firms – some good ones some bad ones. Let’s just leave it at that. Yeah! Here in this space as a whole, I was dying to get into entrepreneur road and I messed my job that I absolutely hated then. I don’t really have that story. I actually really enjoyed my work. And I enjoyed kinda working every day and the people I work with. Some of them are the smartest people I’ve ever met. The decision, I guess that was made for me was when I had my first child. And basically I have every intention to go back to my job. But circumstances happened and I couldn’t adapt and I decided and have to make a choice between family or career. It was an obvious decision. So, that what prompted the late to go out on my own. But it was a really long journey actually. Probably the one that’s not really told very often by people. You know.
Dave: So Ilana, what exactly did you do? I heard IT and what else?
Ilana: So essentially I worked in what’s called Data Analytics. That works for a big US Financial Fund Manager. There were Quant manager.
Dave: Quantitative Analysis?
Ilana: Yeah! That’s right. So they were Quantitative Fund Manager. They analyze the stock market based on quantitative factors. And I was the Data Analytics person which is basically I was the bridge between the Quant guys and the Account Manager. So the account Manager would come to me and say “Hey!” and they had a lot of institutional clients. So they have people who would spend billions of dollars. Our client needs to get information about their aspects of their account. And it was my job to calculate all those metrics. So, I had to understand the Quant side but translate those numbers and present them in a way in such that it would make sense to the client.
Dave: So, it is more than just putting something on a spreadsheet and having a PowerPoint display. True?
Ilana: Yeah so I spent all day all week on spreadsheets. They were my friend. Building macros and stuff like that. It’s complicated. And integrating databases and that kind of stuff. Because you can imagine as an account manager that have literally tens of thousands of spreadsheets of holdings and lots of different proposals stuff. Its data manage. But essentially so being with Data Analytics was having to. It kinda comes after attribution. You know. What are the driving performances with, you know, the funds? And calculating that information so that it would correlates to the account performance for their investors essentially. But ___ 8:17 it is actually really interesting and there were a lot of sort of complicated models that we came up with and every month there was kinda like different stuff that clients would ask for information and global funds or what the global factors that came into it in currency. So yes, A lot of data crunching.
Dave: I guess part of my interest is that I have a similar background. I used to work in semi-conductor business, making memory chips and a lot of my focus was on solving problems. Like how come we are not ___ 8:50 as much as we expect we should. And, there’s two parts. You actually kinda have to physically investigate basically, characterize the parts that are having problems electrically. But we also had tons and tons and tons of data. That we could parse through. So, the skill of being able to parse through data summarizes really made a paid off dividends. You might find a correlation to a machine and fabrication area that was causing the problem. You know, just by going through all that data. I recognize in what you are doing but it is totally different industry. Because there is a lot of data and making sense of it. It takes some time and it is kinda like a puzzle. You know that’s why I kinda enjoyed that too. It’s like Okay! I’m going on a hunt. I’m trying to figure out what are these and look oh what I just found out!
Ilana: You’re right! Absolutely a puzzle. Once you solve that puzzle it’s a great feeling!
Dave: So those 9:51. How does that transfer to what you are doing now? You are kinda looking for a correlation? Or you’re seeking out audiences that respond well to your advertisements. Is that what it comes down to you to what you were doing previously or what’s the tie-end?
Ilana: Yeah! There is a tie end actually but only when I reflect back. I can see that relationship along my journey though starting my business and everything, I don’t see the link. It’s interesting you see that’s just how you by default. Follow your strings, what you enjoy, what you know. So, there is absolutely a link because a lot of what I do now, a lot of PPC is about data. But it is not 100% data it’s probably a really elegant split between data and psychology and creativity. It’s a lovely ___ 10:48. And once we get the data component called the dialing. We can still equally have success. With PPC and with great Ad copy and with great creative. Its just enhance significantly with that data or aspect.
Dave: Can you kinda fail a way to success, just start off with. Let’s say the worst Ad possible and it just keep ___ 11:13. Or does it truly help to have a great copy. I’m sure if you have great copy and you continually split test, you are going to where you want quicker, but could you be a success of what does you want of what does the other. Strictly a great copy and not worry about results or not split test. Or could you just split test your way to infinity?
Ilana: I’d say it depends. It depends on our targeting. I think of it like links in a chain. Success with this stuff, bind traffic which is somewhat limitless if you think about how connected we are online. The first step is your targeting. You have got to identify who your target person is. If you are on google, you need to know what word they are typing into google. If they are on Facebook, it might be who they are as a person or if they are interested in a specific product or whatever. So you have to get that targeting right before you even start showing that person the ad. You can have the best ad copy in the world but you showing that ad to the wrong person, it’s not going to work. So that’s why it depends. If you get your targeting right, then there is more forgiveness in your ad copy. You keep split testing different ad copy probably to infinity. Your work is never done. But if you message to the person, it does not resonate with him, well then no amount of good copy could be the best ad copy in the world.
Dave: Right.
Ilana: I was trying to sell to the ___ 13:06. Better want the Ads but then they don’t need it. So it’s the same kind of thing. And it think that was the kind of mistake that a lot of people fall down. Have these conversations with business owners all the time and they say, “OK great! You know you want to do this. Who is your target audience?” And I was like, “Oh! Everyone!”. “No! We need to identify people. You may eventually want everyone, but let’s start with one particular type of person”. But first, determine the characteristics about them. Are they typing something special in to Google that identifies them as being effectively putting their hand up and say “Yup! I’m your person”. I mean you get my point.
Dave: Yup!
Ilana: So, that’s the mistake I think that a lot of business owners do. They just go way way too broad.
Dave: So the first thing that you want to do is to identify that one customer that you want to target. And assuming it goes well and you become successful and you start to branch out to maybe a different or related market or prospects. Does that sound right?
Ilana: Yeah! So exactly, I asked businesses often, “What’s your best selling product?” Let’s start with something that’s already working really really well in your business. And identify the characteristics of those people. I stop by trying to sell that one. Or Identify the product that returns the highest amount of money. Because most people don’t realize that my traffic is not cheap. Once you start factoring in the cost to show that person the ad coming to your website. Then what’s call the conversion rate. The amount of people who come to your website. It’s often not a very high number. You might get lucky and get a very high number. So, you need to make your money back somehow. So, another mistake that people make is that it might come to me and say, “Alright, I have to sell this product. I like only had been selling it for like $8.” You know it’s gonna cost you more than $8 to acquire that customer. They don’t factor in the cost of the traffic in any kind of advertising really.
Dave: So, they could cover that cost by having a higher price or having something per say on the back end.
Ilana: What exactly sort of actually a continuity aspect or I often suggest we’d like to bundle things up like it’s a product like $8. Like a hamper or something that’s forcing people to buy a whole bunch of products together so that increases your margins where it allows you to buy traffic.
Dave: So, you are saying they might show you any dollar product person, buys it but there is an upsell. Or do you suggest maybe to bundle everything at once right upfront?
Ilana: Either, I guess. And it obviously depends. I guess I do not want to discourage people from doing it. But there are many many different options. You can create a hamper and bundle products together or if you have an existing what it’s called the back end, where either an up-sell or in a month time, I would say there is a discount coupon for their next purchase there is a high lifetime value that’s maybe even justified let’s say to even more. To acquire that initial customer, and if they stay off a while longer then it is worth it.
Dave: So, I guess what I’m hearing so far about this is that you want to focus first like on one product or something 16:47 to start with. Get your targeting right on as much as possible so that when you do have good copy and you split testing you are gonna accelerate your results. And you gotta make sure that you can afford to buy traffic. So, you can’t sell these dirt-cheap products and expect to break even. Or even make money. Maybe bundle with other products and perhaps some kind of continuity after the initial purchase.
Ilana: Yeah! That’s right. And I guess you also have to look at another aspect. Perhaps it’s a well-established business. Let’s say they get a lot of traffic coming to their website without even buying SEO they rank really well in searching terms or something. They could really leverage that existing traffic that you’ve got and you’ve got to touch them before with re-marketing. Much as showing ads to people who had been into the website before. And so, I guess, getting the most out of that existing asset you’ve got of your SEO traffic and you’ve just spent money on re-marketing. Many businesses often just do this. And then they don’t have to spend a lot of money ‘cause it is very targeted campaign and there’s a good return in investment and they might be profitable for them to buy a new traffic. They are leveraging their existing traffic.
Dave: So, I hear this re-marketing traffic if you will, is it cheaper than let’s say called paid traffic? Is that what I hear?
Ilana: Generally, it is cheaper. And it’s generally and more significantly more profitable. And that’s generally understandable because someone’s been into your website before and they’ve known you and maybe even get familiar and maybe even have purchased from your before.
Dave: Okay. I’m trying to understand why would it be cheaper? You know I can understand that it’s probably more profitable because they already know you. They like you. And like you said they probably buy your product. But is it just a fact that your… I guess I don’t understand the difference why it is potentially called a paid traffic is more expensive if you will? Is it because you kinda have your targeting dialed in as well?
Ilana: Alright! So, this is where it comes in to difference between the platform. So, Google is a Pay Per Click Platform. So, they don’t charge you for an impression. So, somebody who sees your ad and does not click, you don’t get charged for it. And generally, people do remarketing on the Google platform with banners on an other people’s website which is significantly cheaper.
Dave: OK, I got it now.
Ilana: Ok. Yeah. And if we are remarketing on Facebook, Facebook is kinda like has a make rate system so you can sit into. And google does too. But that does not affect ___ 19:54 where they reward you for engagement. And they reward you by lower charges. And remarketing campaign, people are likely to be more engaged. They likely to share it and Facebook will reward you with it.
Dave: OK so here’s my thinking. Basically, they want X amount of money out of you so to speak, so if you’re not generating very many clicks they are gonna make up for it by raising the click prices. On the other hand, if you are getting a lot of clicks, well, they are not gonna charge as much but they still get the money they were planning on getting. Does that sound right?
Ilana: Sort of. Essentially, I like to think of it like, Facebook and Google they want to pay for them to advertise obviously. And their over-___20:43 goal, they want to keep it user based. So, google want to keep it cool using search engines and stuff like that and Facebook what they use to stay on their platform. So, they reward their advertisers for providing a good experience for their users and they reward them. So technically very clever, and they sync devices, advertisers, to really think about what would be a good experience that they use are. But they will penalize you for what it’s called bait and switch. Your ad says something, and then you click on the add it’s something completely different. People are gonna get really upset about it and they’re gonna complain about your ad and they probably gonna report it. People on Facebook are acting negatively on something they don’t like because you are upsetting people and they are gonna penalize you for charging you more. So, where you win with Facebook ads is when you get engagements. That’s what they want. They want people to engage with ads and people to share with their friends and they want people to like it and comment. That’s the game on Facebook. If you could win engagement war. Then you win really really cheap traffic. And we have saying, difference is in results when both “Seens” versus dollars in terms of performance.
Dave: Wow!
Ilana: Yeah! It is actually quite interesting. Because if you think about it, when somebody sees on it, and still astounds me when people will share ads on Facebook. That can’t happen on Google. But you can’t share an ad on Google. And then they will share it and then they will tag their friend who they think it’s appropriate for. Then that person who then engages with that is free. It’s further search engine ___ 22:36. To provide a good experience for the user.
Dave: OK. Interesting! Yeah there are very much into making a very positive experience for their users.
Ilana: So, and then they use what they use on the platform. ___ 22:23.
Dave: Right. Right. So, somebody who hasn’t started to use Facebook or Google AdWord, is there anything they could do ahead of time. Set up a pixel or some kind of tracking even before they are starting to use advertising like that.
Ilana: 100%! I urge all business owners especially the ___ 23:13 stuff buying traffic. Even if you are not ready to buy traffic, you definitely should install the pixel. So, Google have their own pixel. Which so you have to sign up for Google AdWords account and then get your little bit of code you can put on your website. And Facebook have their own separate remarketing code as well. So, you have two different codes that you have to put on your own website. And that enables you to do that cross-platform advertising for all your traffic sources. SEO traffic, Direct traffic, email traffic, whatever.
Dave: Ok. So, do you have any resources that explain how to do all that?
Ilana: I do. Actually, I’ve got a video on my website. So, if you go to GreenArrowDigital.com/Pixel there is a video that will show you how to find your Facebook pixel to put on your website and how to find your Google Pixel, the one in the video. ‘cause it’s a little bit confusing if you haven’t done that before. But this video is a step by step way of how to find it and then give it to your web developer to put on the back end of your website.
Dave: Excellent! So, this I even before deciding to use Google AdWords or Facebook just so that you are kinda priming the pump. So, that when you do start advertising, you’ve got people that are pixeled if you will so that you can target them if you want. True?
Ilana: Yeah! Exactly! I think that might be the biggest mistake that people make. People who start sending traffic is that they don’t have this pixel. And If you think of it like olden days of tape recorders, a pixel is essentially a crushing record. And recording the people so that in six months’ time, when you are wanting to start doing paid traffic, you’ve got all the people that it’s been recording from when you hit press record. If you don’t install the pixel, you have to press record.
Dave: OK Got it! Ilana, that’s what I kinda want to find out from you. I appreciate your time. Is there anything I should’ve asked you but I didn’t? That’s a trick question. But go for it.
Ilana: What I do is so vast. You know that’s probably the best starting point I usually you start as business owners. Get that pixel on. Maybe start a remarketing campaign. It’s the kind of thing that once you start, the point of starting with remarketing campaign is to get the low hanging fruit. Get that working and you can start building on a building but really your paid traffic can be as small as you want. It can be $5 a day. There’s a lot of people don’t actually realize… People think we have spent thousands and thousands of dollars. You definitely don’t. You can have a whole campaign for $5 a day.
Dave: Wow! So, get that pixel on there. And then you can start on a very low budget campaign almost right away. Cool! Well, that’s it for me. I appreciate you being in the call today. Thanks!
Ilana: No Worries! Thank you so much for having me on the show. It’s been a blast!
Dave: Yup! My Pleasure!
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